Oral Hygiene

I recently received an email with a story/question, and I wanted to share it with y'all: 

I am a long time reader of your blog. I recently had a dating experience/question that I thought I would pose to you/your readers. I recently went out with a girl and had a lovely first date. While sitting with her though, I noticed a rather odd smell. Thinking it was something to do with the venue we were in, I ignored it. On the second date though, the smell was back. Upon paying a bit of attention, I realized it was her breath. It was a foul earthy like smell. It brought to mind the tale in Jewish folklore of the Talmudic sage who was so poor that he ate dirt, thereby causing his breath to smell.

Once I noticed her breath, I also noticed her teeth. They were covered in plaque and appeared as if they hadn't been brushed in ages. It was quite unappealing. The smell of her breath and appearance of her teeth drove me crazy. We went on a few more dates, but I just could not get past those two "issues". Speaking to her face on would nearly induce gagging. After a few dates we realized we were not compatible and ended things. The experience, however, left me with a question: should I have said something?

This girl was one of the most put together people Ive ever met. She dressed nicely, her life was in order, it made no sense that she would ignore something as important as oral hygiene! I did not think it was my place to say something as it could be highly offensive. However, something like that could serve as a turn-off for any guy she dates and is also simply gross. It undoubtedly bothers / is noticed by her friends and colleagues who simply don't say anything. Aside from that, it could be an indication of a gum disease or some other oral issue. 

As we are no longer dating, my relationship with her is nonexistent. There would e no way for me to say anything. What I wonder is if I should mention it to a friend of hers who can then say something to her? 

Any advice would be welcome,
Yodel Deedle


Yodel,

While it may not seem common, the experience of dating someone who may not cover all the bases when it comes to hygiene can be frustrating -whether it's their teeth/breath, extensive body hair, or some other grooming issue. It brings to mind a date I once had involving a woman with rampant leg hair... at the time I was tempted to offer her my shaver.

First, I'd like to draw attention to something you mentioned. On the first date you ignored it and were able to enjoy her company, despite the smell. However, once you determined the cause, you noticed the details (her teeth, plaque, the particulars of the smell) and provided quite a rich description of how repulsive it became to you. The contrast is important to note, because humans often have a tendency to focus on a particular detail, especially in dating, and allow it to overshadow other aspects of their date's character (for example, you noted that she is very well put together). Whether or not that was the driving force the decision not to continue I certainly don't know, it's just some food for thought.

As far as whether you should have said something, I'd like to acknowledge that pointing out a flaw in someone's self-care/health is a very touchy issue, and takes a lot of courage. Even when approached constructively, it's not an easy thing to do and is not always taken well. That's the case even with close friends/family, and so much more with someone we have practically no relationship with!

However, if this was the singular deal-breaking issue that was unbearable, I would at least have put it on the table, out in the open. Until she is aware of it, there is a small chance it will change; there may have been a simple remedy available if only the concern/frustration were communicated, uncomfortable as it may be to put forth. If you were set up via the grapevine, a friend, or a Shadchan, then you also have the option of broaching the concern indirectly through the third party. This is usually more comfortable for daters, often purported as a plus in Shidduch dating.

Personally, I am a big fan of constructive feedback -if there is anything I could do to improve myself I like to hear about it. For that reason, I support the idea of giving feedback, and if you could still provide constructive feedback through a friend I would encourage you to do so with great sensitivity. Telling someone they have plaque and bad breath can be more hurtful than helpful. If you can also find a way for her to receive feedback anonymously so much the better, since it is often harder to hear from a date (especially if the decision to part ways was initiated by you).

There are more subtle approaches that can be taken too. For example, bringing a pack of mouthwash tabs, mints, breath fresheners, etc. and offering her one when you pull them out for yourself. If you want to really be suave, when you pull them out you can admit that you're sometimes self-conscious about your own breath (Who isn't? I know I am!) and it may put her more at ease (or at least bring some awareness). This may be a short-term fix, but if it frees your mind to enjoy the date, gesundheit!

Unfortunately, I don't think whipping out my shaver in the middle of a date would have been helpful in my case.

The Magic Number 2

I've noticed an interesting pattern in my own dating behavior, and I thought I'd share and get some perspective from the peanut gallery too...

I've written before about the importance of responsiveness (or receptivity) when it comes to interacting with a woman, and in the dating world generally. In the absence of an adequate level of responsiveness, I'll usually give it two tries, but then my motivation to continue plummets. This can be with respect to phone calls, texts, or other forms of contact as well as attempts to schedule another date. I'm tempted to generalize to all forms of initiation in the dating world (and possibly within my relationships as well). But let me not get ahead of myself yet.  

For example, there was a young woman I went on a first date with. It was a nice date and I felt that we began getting to know each other, so I called her up and asked her out again. She responded, "one of my friends is in town, so I'm busy that day." 

"Okay," I thought to myself "that happens. I like to spend time with my out-of-town friends too." So I suggested another potential time and venue. "That's not a good time for me either, I have a work function that night," she replied. At that point, I was simultaneously frustrated ("Well then, just tell me what works for you!") and in doubt ("Okay, I get the message. We're done here.").

It was seriously disheartening. So I said "Alright, let me know if your evenings open up" and I was done. Needless to say, I didn't contact her again.

Was that a mistake? God only knows. But I can say that my motivation plummeted as she told me she was unavailable, yet made no attempt to suggest a viable time. Twice.

In another situation, a mutual friend had followed through with a suggestion, giving me the "a-okay" to contact the lovely lady whose qualities had been so eloquently lauded. I texted her to see when she would like to talk (with the intent of setting a date, of course). A couple -there's that number two again -of quiet days later, I called her up. After ringing all the way to voice mail, I left a message. A day or two later and I'd mentally washed my hands of her. Did she ever contact me back? Yeah. Two weeks later (and no, she wasn't in a different country)... By which point I was long gone.

I've also been on dates that I felt it were dragging on. I don't need a woman to hang on my every word, but it's important to have more than a one-way conversation that feels like a therapy or interrogation session. I can ask a hundred questions, but after just two carefully crafted open-ended inquiries that are reciprocated with monosyllabic answers, I'm practically resigning. While I'm fairly confident I might be able to continue the line of inquiry -and even though I often will, for the sake of getting through the date -I'm usually giving up on the inside. 

On occasion I'll be more persistent. If there's something really pulling me, a strong point of connection, an emotional hook-point... I'll be motivated for longer. When I've had strong feelings, I've been known to pursue with more zeal. However, that is fairly uncommon in the  earliest stages of dating.

Could I be too sensitive? Sure, that's a definite possibility.
Am I missing out on opportunities? I'll submit to that potentiality.
Should I change my modus operandum? Ay, that's the question... I'm not so sure.

I can imagine I'm not the only guy who reacts that way. Part of me wants women to understand that just replying without giving more -be it a question or a suggested date option -will probably be taken as a sign disinterest (at least by me). Another part of me wonders if I'm just letting go too soon. Then again, in the wonderfully diverse world of dating my style is -like ice cream -just one flavor of many. I'll have to keep tabs and see if it's actually working for me or not.

Feel free to add your two cents.

Hide your feelings!

While I will pursue a woman when I have a particular interest, it helps to know she may like me. In fact, the greatest predictor of whether we like someone is often whether we think/know that they like us... 

And yet every so often I'll hear about a missed opportunity, someone who harbored secret feelings for me and worked to hide them rather than allowing them to be known.

How unfortunate. 

Dating Towards a Shared Vision

The Gottmans are a power couple in the field of relationships. Dr. John Gottman is a relationship researcher and his wife, Dr. Julie Schwartz, is a clinician. I attended a seminar about their perspective on couples in which Dr. J. Gottman talked about his research on successful couples.

One of the most striking pieces of his work that struck me is the concept of a shared vision. Practically every successful couple has a shared vision, a set of goals and values that the partners lean on one another to achieve together. During the seminar, he posited that the shared vision is created together.

Which got me thinking about how we date, or at least what I'd thought about how we date. The impression I had when I entered the dating world is that each person has their criteria, their list, their image of what marriage, life, children should look like. We are each trying to find the other person to fit that bill.

I started wondering if maybe instead of looking for that image in another person we should be looking for the person with whom we can create a new image.

Perhaps it wasn't so relevant when we consider the dating history of frum Jews. Living and growing up in small communities may have created a community image, a shared image that children grew up with. Variations may have been smaller. Perhaps in some ways we still have those small communities and still look within them for that shared image. It may have worked then, perhaps it still works today for some.

On the one hand, it seems easy to choose someone based on their fit with our image, and then we stay with them because we like their character and find them attractive. However, it can be quite difficult to find someone who fits that image, and to expect or look for character and attraction in addition can sometimes seem like a tall order.

On the other hand, choosing someone based on character and attraction may seem difficult too, and with the added work of creating a shared image, of having to work and not so easily have the life, marriage, family that we expect or dream of in this moment can also feel like a tough expectation to swallow.

Which way resonates with you?

Dating: Traditional Vs Feminist

Every not-so-often, I get a suggestion from someone -family, friend, a random disgruntled date -that I should probably go for a woman who is more traditional.

Personally, I feel conflicted. On the one hand, I was raised in a very traditional family. My Mother felt a deep sense of responsibility and fulfillment in taking care of us kids, cooking and creating a home environment, while my Father was the breadwinner and head of the household. On the other hand, my family also has some distinct non-traditional leanings. My Mother has more formal education than my Father, while my Father was more than happy to change my diapers and get to cooking/cleaning when he got home from work and my Mother was busy (either playing with us kids or with work/school). In many ways, I'd like to think my parents were flexible in their roles.

But there's more to it than that. I saw bits of both the traditional and non-traditional relationship in my parents. Truth be told, I think I absorbed a value for both, and I want both -or parts of both. Which can all be very confusing, since at times they seem to be in conflict with one another. On top of that, I grew up exposed to American culture and media, which has a whole other set of values and expectations for relationships. Of course it's not so simple, and I'm working through my own values. 

As much as I feel conflicted and confused about my expectations and values, I can imagine that it might be just as conflicting and/or confusing for women. So I'd like to throw a question out there for all the ladies out there: Do you experience a similar conflict for yourself? How do you deal with it?