I was talking to several wonderful women about shidduch dating and online dating, when one of them blurted out that her shadchan hadn't set her up in months. Another one chimed in, and soon there was a chorus of complaints about how both shidduch dating and online dating is imbalanced and unfair.
I grant that, as a man, I have been privileged and have more dating opportunity by nature of the system and (perceived) crisis. I am willing to accept that has certainly been part of my dating experience, though there are parts of me that would like to vehemently argue that I've got my own merits and work hard on cultivating my character and honing my dating/relationship skills.
Then an idea struck me, one that seemed intuitive to me but perhaps didn't seem very common. When I was more involved in shidduch dating, and even online dating with websites that used shadchanim, I often made contact with the shadchan. Whenever possible I walked into her office (I chose a shadchan who was as local as possible for this reason specifically) and sat down to chat about her work and passions, to talk about my values, and genuinely cultivated a connection. My impulse was to generate a connection and to listen to the shadchan's thoughts about issues in dating, issues in her work, and even sometimes talk about our personal lives (gasp!) outside of dating.
So I asked two of the women when they had last called and had a conversation with their shadchan, and how often they just got together to talk about their respective lives. When I encouraged them to do so at least once or twice a week, perhaps even setting time aside to get together with their shadchan, one of them immediately replied, "I'm in medical school, I don't have time for that!"
My reply was immediate: "well, then you probably don't have much time to date guys either." At first, she was very taken aback.
"What?" She snapped at me. "Of course I would make time for that."
Then I had to backtrack and explain. The time she would spend dating someone and talking to a date she really likes may be spent developing a deeper connection with the shadchan. It has the benefit and consequence of being on the shadchan's mind more, who will in turn be more personally invested in her dating life and motivated to find a shidduch. Someone else added that the shadchan will also learn more about our values and what we are looking for, so she would be able to offer better suggestions.
A lot of shadchanim have so many people to set up it is hard to be so invested in them all. Make yourself the one she's most invested in. Give her a ring. Ask about her family. Take her out to dinner if that's what it takes.
Some things I have done and would consider doing include:
* Texting to find a time to talk, perhaps even a regular weekly time.
* Asking about her interests, hobbies, and family. Especially children and/or grandchildren.
* Listen and pay attention to her feelings. Sometimes a shadchan feels harried, pestered, or stressed by myself, other daters, or other aspects of her life like work, family, or community issues. Sometimes just listening or letting a shadchan vent is a small but important way to reciprocate and show we care about them too.
* Be aware and sensitive not to make every moment of each conversation all about myself. It is exhausting to think about having to constantly take care of someone else every time we hear from them, and shadchanim may somteimes feel this way about the singles they set up. We are a lot of work and can be a handful!
* Writing a letter or thank-you card. In a pinch, an email will do, but it is really important to feel and share my gratitude and appreciation for the time that is spent thinking about me and other singles. The more personal the touch, the better it conveys how I feel. It can make quite an impression!
* Treat her to a thank-you dinner sometime.
I know that it's probably a bit awkward for a guy to take his shadchan to dinner (especially if the shadchan is a married female), and that a lot of guys just take it for granted that we get handed more suggestions. But guys aren't the only ones who should be asking their shadchanim out for dinner. The best way to stand out is to develop a closer connection with the shadchan.
If everyone put in the work in connecting more deeply with their shadchan there would be a lot more overwhelmed shadchanim. That being said, I also believe that cultivating a deeper connection results in more investment and more thought about those we are connected to, leading to both better quality and more frequent suggestions, resulting in better opportunity overall.
Showing posts with label Dating Methods. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Dating Methods. Show all posts
Oct 6, 2014
Sep 28, 2014
Find Inspiration, Make a Plan, and Watch it Fail
Sometimes, I revel in ironic shock at the sheer number of things that must converge for a moment to occur -the type of moment that jolts my attention, sends an electric bolt through my mind, stirs my heart, and instantly forms the resolve in my soul: I will find a way meet and get to know her.
The rest is a confluence of meticulous planning, some smoothness, and a serious dose of what could either be called arbitrary luck or the hand of God.
Sometimes, you look across a dimly lit room, lock eyes with a gorgeous woman, and feel butterflies in your stomach. That day, the room was bright, she had just ended a ridiculously long work day, and didn't look back at me. I later found out that she felt sweaty, disgusting, and exhausted. I was nowhere near her radar, though I was aware of her from the moment she stepped into the goodbye party for our mutual friend.
That was the moment I started calculating. I know I've talked about preferences before (here and here), yet it still caught me off guard when I encountered someone who immediately seemed to fit so much of my "type." Every cog in my brain was turning with the express goal of inserting myself into a conversation, finding an appropriate moment and method of introduction, making a point of connection. While the inside of my head churned furiously, I waited patiently. I joined other conversations with friends while very intently paying attention to my peripheral vision. I cannot remember the last time I multitasked so strenuously that my mouth was on autopilot while my brain was in a completely different zone.
She was having a conversation by a table with drinks, so I carefully chose an angled approach to the drink table, ostensibly getting water. Who cares that I was actually thirsty, I was on a mission. I listened hard as I poured water, spilling a little because of my careless attention to the useless task of actually getting liquid in my cup. The moment I turned to add a comment to the conversation, both her body and the conversation took a turn away from me.
Mission failed, for now.
Don't ask how many cups of water I got over the next hour. Sometimes, a move just doesn't work, but for lack of another tactic -and honestly because getting a cup of water and taking a drink is no small comfort in a social setting that I'm feeling lost in -I just kept going back for more water.
One thing I absolutely love about being a man is that when people leave a party, I have and ace in my back pocket; the perfect gentlemanly way of getting into a short conversation with a person of interest is while manscorting her.
It was a short conversation, perhaps about sixteen minutes and forty seven seconds. We walked to the main road where she wanted to get a cab, then spent several minutes failing to find one, to my inner delight. So we contended ourselves with the evolving conversation keeping us company. She had an endearing sarcastic wit to her that could only be described as sassy, and I told her as much. She told me I didn't have to wait, and when I simply stood there with a confident yet semi-puzzled look and said, "I know" to convey that I was merely enjoying the fleeting moment, she insisted by saying "you've been nothing but a gentleman." Of course, as is wont in such picturesque scenarios, that very moment was when no less than four cabs appeared -one from each direction of the intersection -and she was whisked off into the night, leaving me with an extra spring in my step as I walked home.
That was at the end of the evening, and thus the end of this part of the story.
The rest is a confluence of meticulous planning, some smoothness, and a serious dose of what could either be called arbitrary luck or the hand of God.
Sometimes, you look across a dimly lit room, lock eyes with a gorgeous woman, and feel butterflies in your stomach. That day, the room was bright, she had just ended a ridiculously long work day, and didn't look back at me. I later found out that she felt sweaty, disgusting, and exhausted. I was nowhere near her radar, though I was aware of her from the moment she stepped into the goodbye party for our mutual friend.
That was the moment I started calculating. I know I've talked about preferences before (here and here), yet it still caught me off guard when I encountered someone who immediately seemed to fit so much of my "type." Every cog in my brain was turning with the express goal of inserting myself into a conversation, finding an appropriate moment and method of introduction, making a point of connection. While the inside of my head churned furiously, I waited patiently. I joined other conversations with friends while very intently paying attention to my peripheral vision. I cannot remember the last time I multitasked so strenuously that my mouth was on autopilot while my brain was in a completely different zone.
She was having a conversation by a table with drinks, so I carefully chose an angled approach to the drink table, ostensibly getting water. Who cares that I was actually thirsty, I was on a mission. I listened hard as I poured water, spilling a little because of my careless attention to the useless task of actually getting liquid in my cup. The moment I turned to add a comment to the conversation, both her body and the conversation took a turn away from me.
Mission failed, for now.
Don't ask how many cups of water I got over the next hour. Sometimes, a move just doesn't work, but for lack of another tactic -and honestly because getting a cup of water and taking a drink is no small comfort in a social setting that I'm feeling lost in -I just kept going back for more water.
One thing I absolutely love about being a man is that when people leave a party, I have and ace in my back pocket; the perfect gentlemanly way of getting into a short conversation with a person of interest is while manscorting her.
It was a short conversation, perhaps about sixteen minutes and forty seven seconds. We walked to the main road where she wanted to get a cab, then spent several minutes failing to find one, to my inner delight. So we contended ourselves with the evolving conversation keeping us company. She had an endearing sarcastic wit to her that could only be described as sassy, and I told her as much. She told me I didn't have to wait, and when I simply stood there with a confident yet semi-puzzled look and said, "I know" to convey that I was merely enjoying the fleeting moment, she insisted by saying "you've been nothing but a gentleman." Of course, as is wont in such picturesque scenarios, that very moment was when no less than four cabs appeared -one from each direction of the intersection -and she was whisked off into the night, leaving me with an extra spring in my step as I walked home.
That was at the end of the evening, and thus the end of this part of the story.
Sep 18, 2014
The Chain of Dating
At the beginning of summer, one of my married friends set me up. Not the everyday setup, this one had been in the works for eight months. Yup, that long. It was hard to say no, despite my previous assertions, though mostly because I had practically said yes already several months beforehand. The short version of the story is that the lovely woman and I were alternately too busy or seeing someone else. The sheer persistence of my friend allowed the pairing to come together as the spring semester ended, both for me as a student and her as a teacher. I haven't experienced it often, but on rare occasion someone gets an idea into their head and simply will not let go of it. I have to say, half the time it's flattering and the other half annoying. This time it was more flattering, or maybe that was when it finally worked out after hearing about it every five weeks.
It was a pleasant first date at a coffee shop, which has quickly become the bread-and-butter of my first date experiences (cue sidebar). Aside from the ease in planning, and the flexibility for length of date depending on how it's going, it requires less thought and investment but can be creative. In short, it's the quickest, simplest, on-the-fly date I can plan with a creative twist if I want to bring board-games or other tabletop activities with locations everywhere. I've been known to shoehorn the coffee first date into an impromptu park walk or parlay into another date-like activity when it was going very well, and finish my drink faster to end it within an hour when it's not.
Rant aside, I enjoyed the date. I found her bright, opinionated, accepting, passionate about her career, and we connected in our mutual interest and joy in working with children. It was, however, short lived. One and done, as she didn't see our personalities meshing. I was impressed and found myself thinking that she's fantastic, despite my limited experience with her. I had hoped to get to know her better. Oh well.
Then the chain began. She set me up with a friend of hers, and I do sincerely believe that someone I've been on a date with knows me better than a Shadchan would, at least in the realm of experiencing me. Since I'm not much for categories I thought I'd give it a whirl. Another coffee date. Another one and done. She set me up with a friend of hers too. It all began to feel a bit like I was getting passed around a group of friends -all of whom let me down easy (read: guiltily -though it made me curious as to why is it that these wonderful women felt so bad about not being interested?), said I'm a great guy, and set me up with a friend in turn. At least the last one had a bit more substance -intellectual conversations over art, talk about emotions and matters of the heart, getting deeper into our personal stories -the kind that are milestones and shape who we are.
As an aside, I joked with my sister that I was being handed off. Then she told me that she recently did the same thing with a number of men she'd dated over the summer as well! Of course I heard stories and connections that were made about the personalities, interests, and wants of these men and what inspired the idea. It was eye opening to see that from the other side.
Ultimately, the dating chain ended. As it turns out, I still prefer the flexible, potentially spontaneous, straightforward coffee first date. I also had a light bulb moment after my summer dating stint. Dating is a huge pain, right up until the moment you find someone you like (and who likes you back). Then it is the simple thrilling joy of discovering that person (and, incidentally yourself).
But that's another story for another time. Soon.
Apr 1, 2014
Farewell to the Shidduch Dating World
I've tried it, over and over. Between websites, shadchanim, friends setting me up, I've racked more dates than I want to remember with more women than I should have kept count. Let's just say after reaching 75 I realized that counting is not productive for me, just as dating the "frum" way isn't productive for me. In fact, I'm not sure it really ever was -I certainly didn't quite fit that mold.
What does all this mean? Will I never go on a blind date or shidduch date? Will I be off the internet dating websites forever? Is this my last post? I have no definitive answers forever. I have searched my doubts, considered whether I should simply redouble my efforts, "tone down," "read between the lines," and just keep slogging along the same route(s). As Einstien said, though, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. For my sanity, I need to try something else, something new, something different.
I'd like to be clear on a few points here. First, that this isn't about becoming less religious. In fact, I've found more observance as I've worked through the process, and a deeper connection with God as I continue to pour my heart and pain out -both in dating and in davening. I'm not talking here about letting go of my shomer ideology, I'm taking about a dating system that feels broken to me -a system I am now choosing not to participate in. Second, this isn't a decision of emotions, even as painful as it is. I have thought through the process and my place in it. I have come to the conclusion that it's not for me, and I will lay out the reasons below:
1) Relationships are made of experiences not criteria. There is some interesting research about the phenomenon in online dating (and I extend that to my experience of shidduch dating as well) regarding a distinction between search by criterion and experience and how much searching by some "measurable" criteria fails at actually finding compatibility. I am done with questions and information about potential dates (and myself) that have nothing to do with actually experiencing the other person.
2) People are not a pile of characteristics, nor do they need to fit our set of desires. Every time I see and hear about the "things" a woman is looking for, I have a nauseous and visceral retching reaction. It may well be (or not be) the case that I am "mature," "sensitive," "growth oriented," or "humerous," but I'm absolutely uninterested in trying to decide or cram myself into a bunch of those traits (and the religious/hashkafic ones as well) in order to determine my "fitness" or a woman's "fitness." It always felt to me that it's more about searching for those things than meeting and forming a connection with the person, much like objectifying as it is about finding something rather than being with someone. I've learned that people and life are much more vibrant, much less clean-cut, and far more interesting when related to as people than a pile of traits. The best of people are not only highly flawed (as I am), but own it -it is a core part of who they are. For me, it has been a journey of realizing that having a list was a road-block to recognizing and appreciating the entirely of another person.
3) I am a high-contact, deep-connection, intense person. There is something in moments of connection -moments of vulnerability, moments of listening and understanding, being understood, feeling deeply known and knowing the other, simply accepting without need for either myself or the other to be anything other than exactly what we are -that is essential and core to the way I am, every day. It is a testament to my being in the right place with my career. I am comfortable going zero-to-sixty when I sense what I am describing above, and it has been my experience that the "frum" dating world does not often foster that type of connection. In fact, I have often felt that all the protocols, labels, lists, and laborious information-gathering is counter to developing that type of connection.
4) Formal dating artificially increases pressure to consider marriage prematurely. Instead of thinking, "who is this person, I want to really understand them" I often found (and still find) myself asking "do I want to marry this?" over all the little things that I experience as early as the first date. My values for dating and relationships are so dissonant with this thinking that I actually cringed as I wrote that I have those thoughts. Ultimately, I think that is at the core of my choice here -the values I have cultivated for myself with respect to dating and relationships are so far and away from those I was introduced to and experienced in shidduch dating that I have come to recognize it's just not for me.
5) My highest value in a relationship is knowing and being known deeply, accepting and being accepted completely, and trusting one another to make our own way through personal struggles. The first time I experienced this, it was shocking that simply feeling known, understood, accepted, and trusted in my capability to engage life and my personal issues was so important. It's necessary to both have patience as we each struggle with our own challenges, flaws, issues, and find our own growth side-by-side. I certainly have a great deal I struggle with, but I don't need someone to push me along; I'd rather have someone simply sit with me when I am entrenched in my own issues, feeling that they know in their bones that I will make it through successfully in my own time. In dating, it translates as my taking time and continuing to go out in order to be with someone, to remain present and understand who they are, how they experience the world, and what brings them meaning.
There's a term that's been floating around which I really appreciate, "with-ness," which is some kind of amalgamation of "with" and "witness." It refers to the experience of standing by and sharing in experience while trusting the person to manage and take care of whatever is going on independently. There is a kind of deep trust and knowing which comes with that stance, and it is an experience I have experienced reciprocally and treasure. Aside from being rare, it is my way of searching for a soul mate. At this moment, I feel the shidduch system isn't very conducive to that way of relating.
What does all this mean? Will I never go on a blind date or shidduch date? Will I be off the internet dating websites forever? Is this my last post? I have no definitive answers forever. I have searched my doubts, considered whether I should simply redouble my efforts, "tone down," "read between the lines," and just keep slogging along the same route(s). As Einstien said, though, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. For my sanity, I need to try something else, something new, something different.
I'd like to be clear on a few points here. First, that this isn't about becoming less religious. In fact, I've found more observance as I've worked through the process, and a deeper connection with God as I continue to pour my heart and pain out -both in dating and in davening. I'm not talking here about letting go of my shomer ideology, I'm taking about a dating system that feels broken to me -a system I am now choosing not to participate in. Second, this isn't a decision of emotions, even as painful as it is. I have thought through the process and my place in it. I have come to the conclusion that it's not for me, and I will lay out the reasons below:
1) Relationships are made of experiences not criteria. There is some interesting research about the phenomenon in online dating (and I extend that to my experience of shidduch dating as well) regarding a distinction between search by criterion and experience and how much searching by some "measurable" criteria fails at actually finding compatibility. I am done with questions and information about potential dates (and myself) that have nothing to do with actually experiencing the other person.
2) People are not a pile of characteristics, nor do they need to fit our set of desires. Every time I see and hear about the "things" a woman is looking for, I have a nauseous and visceral retching reaction. It may well be (or not be) the case that I am "mature," "sensitive," "growth oriented," or "humerous," but I'm absolutely uninterested in trying to decide or cram myself into a bunch of those traits (and the religious/hashkafic ones as well) in order to determine my "fitness" or a woman's "fitness." It always felt to me that it's more about searching for those things than meeting and forming a connection with the person, much like objectifying as it is about finding something rather than being with someone. I've learned that people and life are much more vibrant, much less clean-cut, and far more interesting when related to as people than a pile of traits. The best of people are not only highly flawed (as I am), but own it -it is a core part of who they are. For me, it has been a journey of realizing that having a list was a road-block to recognizing and appreciating the entirely of another person.
3) I am a high-contact, deep-connection, intense person. There is something in moments of connection -moments of vulnerability, moments of listening and understanding, being understood, feeling deeply known and knowing the other, simply accepting without need for either myself or the other to be anything other than exactly what we are -that is essential and core to the way I am, every day. It is a testament to my being in the right place with my career. I am comfortable going zero-to-sixty when I sense what I am describing above, and it has been my experience that the "frum" dating world does not often foster that type of connection. In fact, I have often felt that all the protocols, labels, lists, and laborious information-gathering is counter to developing that type of connection.
4) Formal dating artificially increases pressure to consider marriage prematurely. Instead of thinking, "who is this person, I want to really understand them" I often found (and still find) myself asking "do I want to marry this?" over all the little things that I experience as early as the first date. My values for dating and relationships are so dissonant with this thinking that I actually cringed as I wrote that I have those thoughts. Ultimately, I think that is at the core of my choice here -the values I have cultivated for myself with respect to dating and relationships are so far and away from those I was introduced to and experienced in shidduch dating that I have come to recognize it's just not for me.
5) My highest value in a relationship is knowing and being known deeply, accepting and being accepted completely, and trusting one another to make our own way through personal struggles. The first time I experienced this, it was shocking that simply feeling known, understood, accepted, and trusted in my capability to engage life and my personal issues was so important. It's necessary to both have patience as we each struggle with our own challenges, flaws, issues, and find our own growth side-by-side. I certainly have a great deal I struggle with, but I don't need someone to push me along; I'd rather have someone simply sit with me when I am entrenched in my own issues, feeling that they know in their bones that I will make it through successfully in my own time. In dating, it translates as my taking time and continuing to go out in order to be with someone, to remain present and understand who they are, how they experience the world, and what brings them meaning.
There's a term that's been floating around which I really appreciate, "with-ness," which is some kind of amalgamation of "with" and "witness." It refers to the experience of standing by and sharing in experience while trusting the person to manage and take care of whatever is going on independently. There is a kind of deep trust and knowing which comes with that stance, and it is an experience I have experienced reciprocally and treasure. Aside from being rare, it is my way of searching for a soul mate. At this moment, I feel the shidduch system isn't very conducive to that way of relating.
Feb 24, 2014
The Counteroffer
I have encountered this particular phenomenon many a time during the course of my dating experience. The interaction starts of fairly benign, talking about each others' lives, interests, beliefs, experiences, what have you. Then the date planning gets under way, it's about the logistics and sorting out the "what," "where," and "when." Inevitably, there are some hiccups along the way. Either the time(s) I mention I am available don't work, or something comes up before the date.
Then comes the moment of truth; does she make a counteroffer?
Whether or not you think about it, there is subtle communication in this little gesture, or lack thereof. A counteroffer communicates interest, a desire to spend time together -if only to get to know the other person. Lack of a counteroffer communicates -for whatever reason -that she's not very interested in meeting, dating, or spending time together.
It can even communicate that she's actually uninterested in dating altogether -and even impact my interest. I had a first date with a lovely young woman once, and followed it up by asking her out on a second date no less than three times. Invariably, all three times she said she was busy for one reason or another, but she made absolutely no counteroffer on any of these occasions. While it could be perceived as legitimate reasons to have been unavailable, after that many attempts without her showing interest or offering to reschedule, I was done.
Then comes the moment of truth; does she make a counteroffer?
Whether or not you think about it, there is subtle communication in this little gesture, or lack thereof. A counteroffer communicates interest, a desire to spend time together -if only to get to know the other person. Lack of a counteroffer communicates -for whatever reason -that she's not very interested in meeting, dating, or spending time together.
It can even communicate that she's actually uninterested in dating altogether -and even impact my interest. I had a first date with a lovely young woman once, and followed it up by asking her out on a second date no less than three times. Invariably, all three times she said she was busy for one reason or another, but she made absolutely no counteroffer on any of these occasions. While it could be perceived as legitimate reasons to have been unavailable, after that many attempts without her showing interest or offering to reschedule, I was done.
Apr 23, 2013
Exclusivity, Commitment, and Serial Monogamy
When I first thought of dating and relationships, it was pretty clear to me that from the moment I asked a woman out or accepted a suggestion that I would date her exclusively.
In particular this meant several things in my mind:
1) Placing all other/pending/future suggestions on hold, telling them that I am busy.
2) Dedicating myself and my energy to getting to know this one woman. In other words, prioritizing dating and the relationship with her.
3) Staying involved until (a) I am certain I know her well and (b) I've clearly determined she's not for me.
Thinking back, I see this as a double-edged sword. On the one hand, I do enjoy focusing my energy on one woman. I happen to be very one-on-one focused, and I experience a unique joy in spending time with individual friends in contrast to group hangouts. On the other hand, it's a high level of investment, commitment, and dedication for someone I have never met and -let's be honest -owe nothing to aside from the aforementioned date.
This type of serial monogamy in dating is likely the culprit for my (a) continuing to ask women out after a date or two based on the assumption that I don't know her well enough to make a decision, (b) feeling pressured to cram more and more into less time, and (c) feeling committed to someone I've barely met.
As an added consequence, I'm often much more interested in talking through our differences in values, viewpoints, observance, or things I hear (or witness) that bother me. I am often ready to do this even on a first date or an initial conversation, though my experience is that most people take months to get to that point.
I also am willing to become invested, to be open and vulnerable quite early on. I'm the type of person who feels it's important to have an open heart and isn't worried about being rejected or hurt -my heart is strong enough to handle that.
What I have felt is stress and pressure, particularly with respect to my predetermined dedication. At times I feel like I'm pressuring myself to be prematurely committed to her. I also have experienced exhaustion, and a feeling of unbalanced reciprocation. I rarely feel that the woman I'm dating is giving me the same chance or dedication I give her, and it can be a frustrating feeling.
I'm still teasing out all these feelings, and trying to balance my values with some of the frustration I experience. I also expect that this part of my personality has a significant effect on how I present myself on dates, and in particular how it impacts the first impression I give off.
In particular this meant several things in my mind:
1) Placing all other/pending/future suggestions on hold, telling them that I am busy.
2) Dedicating myself and my energy to getting to know this one woman. In other words, prioritizing dating and the relationship with her.
3) Staying involved until (a) I am certain I know her well and (b) I've clearly determined she's not for me.
Thinking back, I see this as a double-edged sword. On the one hand, I do enjoy focusing my energy on one woman. I happen to be very one-on-one focused, and I experience a unique joy in spending time with individual friends in contrast to group hangouts. On the other hand, it's a high level of investment, commitment, and dedication for someone I have never met and -let's be honest -owe nothing to aside from the aforementioned date.
This type of serial monogamy in dating is likely the culprit for my (a) continuing to ask women out after a date or two based on the assumption that I don't know her well enough to make a decision, (b) feeling pressured to cram more and more into less time, and (c) feeling committed to someone I've barely met.
As an added consequence, I'm often much more interested in talking through our differences in values, viewpoints, observance, or things I hear (or witness) that bother me. I am often ready to do this even on a first date or an initial conversation, though my experience is that most people take months to get to that point.
I also am willing to become invested, to be open and vulnerable quite early on. I'm the type of person who feels it's important to have an open heart and isn't worried about being rejected or hurt -my heart is strong enough to handle that.
What I have felt is stress and pressure, particularly with respect to my predetermined dedication. At times I feel like I'm pressuring myself to be prematurely committed to her. I also have experienced exhaustion, and a feeling of unbalanced reciprocation. I rarely feel that the woman I'm dating is giving me the same chance or dedication I give her, and it can be a frustrating feeling.
I'm still teasing out all these feelings, and trying to balance my values with some of the frustration I experience. I also expect that this part of my personality has a significant effect on how I present myself on dates, and in particular how it impacts the first impression I give off.
Apr 7, 2013
Acting Out
This post represents the accumulation of a series of events that I've been reflecting on for some time. After dating intensely during my first year of grad school, taking a break for several months during my second year and finding a more balanced, if frustrating, experience through this year, I have realized three things:
1) I really dislike dating, especially formal/shidduch dating. I'll lump online dating here as well. I dislike the system(s), the imposed structures, the unnatural feeling and pressure I experience. I also dislike constantly feeling judged for little things and big things alike. Could be that's all in my head; perhaps I'm just an anxious person. However, throughout the past three years in particular I have felt and increasing frustration with my dating experience. On this point I'd like to add one thing: I am relationship-focused, and thoroughly enjoy being in a relationship. Most of my quibbles have to do with the initial process of contact and the "date procedure," with all of the hoops and qualifying questions people ask/check to make sure I "fit well enough" into what they want. I mean seriously, fitting into a box or a list is not something I like to do on a first date, I find it both uncomfortable and a tad insulting. I happen to believe we should take our dating partner holistically as a person, search for connection (and add values in here if you'd like, though I believe it takes longer to really understand a person's values), find a bit of romance. I don't want a box or list, I want a person.
2) I really don't have time for it. This one requires some explanation, because if it were strictly a matter of time management, then there would be no problem. One of the things I have discovered is that with 70+ hour weeks, even when I carve out a block of time to (a) make plans, (b) get ready, (c) travel, (d) spend time and be present with the person, and (e) head back home, I find myself exhausted and stressed before the date (I'm getting exhausted even writing out the list!). Having to go on a weeknight date straight after my night classes (which end at 7pm on my early evenings) with my schoolbag in tow doesn't help either. There is always so much to be doing, so many responsibilities, and so many concerns looming that even when I'm on a date I feel them nagging at the edge of my consciousness. I'll admit that carving out time for some yoga, herbal tea, and relaxation beforehand to allow myself a chance to slow down might help, but it's not always practical and often I'm already sacrificing personal/school/work/research time just to be on the date. I will admit that viewing this time as a sacrifice rather than an investment -or as a chance to unwind, make jokes, and enjoy myself -probably also doesn't help.
3) I have been acting out rather than being honest with myself (and those women). Now I don't mean crying, throwing tantrums, or being rude. As I have reflected on the above points, I have come to realize that the way I present myself is a far more "under pressure" and non-ideal version of myself. I'm not ashamed of it, but I also don't think it's the most attractive side of me to be putting out on display. I can chalk it up to my long hours and the responsibilities of graduate school. I can also blame it on the system and my experience of the looming question "will I marry this person?" that silently invades dates and underlies many a question and conversation topic. But I'd rather be honest and acknowledge that I have not been on top of my game when it comes to dating.
Part of me has hoped that the person I'm on a date with can see through, or will give me more than one, two, or three chances to really get to know me -which is perhaps why I do this myself -but that may not be a realistic expectation. Perhaps I hope to find someone who is more like me and is patient and tolerant enough to invest in a relationship rather than making a quick choice within several hours of contact. In fact, those expectations and hopes likely fuel my frustration and growing resentment.
But wait, then what should I do? How should I address this?
Well, I'm certainly not going to start blurting out my recent reflections prior to -or on -a first date. I have thus far found one work-around: meeting the person and developing a connection more organically rather than (a) point-blank asking women out within a short time of meeting them or (b) being set up via shadchan/friend. I acknowledge this particular method likely puts me in a significantly different dating pool, and I've been wondering if perhaps I'm simply more comfortable swimming in that pool. Other options include (1) taking a break until life lets up a bit (2) gritting my teeth and continuing to trudge along, (3) taking school/work/research less seriously to free up some of that stress, (4) changing my expectations/hopes, (5) loosening up and allowing the more relaxed, playful, fun part of me to show in other areas of my life -including formal/shidduch/online dating. That last one has the merit of all around increasing my happiness, though it may be a tad over-reaching just yet.
The first step is being aware. The second is making myself accountable, which I'm doing here. Where I go from here... I'll have to update y'all as I make progress.
1) I really dislike dating, especially formal/shidduch dating. I'll lump online dating here as well. I dislike the system(s), the imposed structures, the unnatural feeling and pressure I experience. I also dislike constantly feeling judged for little things and big things alike. Could be that's all in my head; perhaps I'm just an anxious person. However, throughout the past three years in particular I have felt and increasing frustration with my dating experience. On this point I'd like to add one thing: I am relationship-focused, and thoroughly enjoy being in a relationship. Most of my quibbles have to do with the initial process of contact and the "date procedure," with all of the hoops and qualifying questions people ask/check to make sure I "fit well enough" into what they want. I mean seriously, fitting into a box or a list is not something I like to do on a first date, I find it both uncomfortable and a tad insulting. I happen to believe we should take our dating partner holistically as a person, search for connection (and add values in here if you'd like, though I believe it takes longer to really understand a person's values), find a bit of romance. I don't want a box or list, I want a person.
2) I really don't have time for it. This one requires some explanation, because if it were strictly a matter of time management, then there would be no problem. One of the things I have discovered is that with 70+ hour weeks, even when I carve out a block of time to (a) make plans, (b) get ready, (c) travel, (d) spend time and be present with the person, and (e) head back home, I find myself exhausted and stressed before the date (I'm getting exhausted even writing out the list!). Having to go on a weeknight date straight after my night classes (which end at 7pm on my early evenings) with my schoolbag in tow doesn't help either. There is always so much to be doing, so many responsibilities, and so many concerns looming that even when I'm on a date I feel them nagging at the edge of my consciousness. I'll admit that carving out time for some yoga, herbal tea, and relaxation beforehand to allow myself a chance to slow down might help, but it's not always practical and often I'm already sacrificing personal/school/work/research time just to be on the date. I will admit that viewing this time as a sacrifice rather than an investment -or as a chance to unwind, make jokes, and enjoy myself -probably also doesn't help.
3) I have been acting out rather than being honest with myself (and those women). Now I don't mean crying, throwing tantrums, or being rude. As I have reflected on the above points, I have come to realize that the way I present myself is a far more "under pressure" and non-ideal version of myself. I'm not ashamed of it, but I also don't think it's the most attractive side of me to be putting out on display. I can chalk it up to my long hours and the responsibilities of graduate school. I can also blame it on the system and my experience of the looming question "will I marry this person?" that silently invades dates and underlies many a question and conversation topic. But I'd rather be honest and acknowledge that I have not been on top of my game when it comes to dating.
Part of me has hoped that the person I'm on a date with can see through, or will give me more than one, two, or three chances to really get to know me -which is perhaps why I do this myself -but that may not be a realistic expectation. Perhaps I hope to find someone who is more like me and is patient and tolerant enough to invest in a relationship rather than making a quick choice within several hours of contact. In fact, those expectations and hopes likely fuel my frustration and growing resentment.
But wait, then what should I do? How should I address this?
Well, I'm certainly not going to start blurting out my recent reflections prior to -or on -a first date. I have thus far found one work-around: meeting the person and developing a connection more organically rather than (a) point-blank asking women out within a short time of meeting them or (b) being set up via shadchan/friend. I acknowledge this particular method likely puts me in a significantly different dating pool, and I've been wondering if perhaps I'm simply more comfortable swimming in that pool. Other options include (1) taking a break until life lets up a bit (2) gritting my teeth and continuing to trudge along, (3) taking school/work/research less seriously to free up some of that stress, (4) changing my expectations/hopes, (5) loosening up and allowing the more relaxed, playful, fun part of me to show in other areas of my life -including formal/shidduch/online dating. That last one has the merit of all around increasing my happiness, though it may be a tad over-reaching just yet.
The first step is being aware. The second is making myself accountable, which I'm doing here. Where I go from here... I'll have to update y'all as I make progress.
Jan 2, 2013
Oral Hygiene
I recently received an email with a story/question, and I wanted to share it with y'all:
I am a long time reader of your blog. I recently had a dating experience/question that I thought I would pose to you/your readers. I recently went out with a girl and had a lovely first date. While sitting with her though, I noticed a rather odd smell. Thinking it was something to do with the venue we were in, I ignored it. On the second date though, the smell was back. Upon paying a bit of attention, I realized it was her breath. It was a foul earthy like smell. It brought to mind the tale in Jewish folklore of the Talmudic sage who was so poor that he ate dirt, thereby causing his breath to smell.
Once I noticed her breath, I also noticed her teeth. They were covered in plaque and appeared as if they hadn't been brushed in ages. It was quite unappealing. The smell of her breath and appearance of her teeth drove me crazy. We went on a few more dates, but I just could not get past those two "issues". Speaking to her face on would nearly induce gagging. After a few dates we realized we were not compatible and ended things. The experience, however, left me with a question: should I have said something?
This girl was one of the most put together people Ive ever met. She dressed nicely, her life was in order, it made no sense that she would ignore something as important as oral hygiene! I did not think it was my place to say something as it could be highly offensive. However, something like that could serve as a turn-off for any guy she dates and is also simply gross. It undoubtedly bothers / is noticed by her friends and colleagues who simply don't say anything. Aside from that, it could be an indication of a gum disease or some other oral issue.
As we are no longer dating, my relationship with her is nonexistent. There would e no way for me to say anything. What I wonder is if I should mention it to a friend of hers who can then say something to her?
Any advice would be welcome,
Yodel Deedle
Yodel,
While it may not seem common, the experience of dating someone who may not cover all the bases when it comes to hygiene can be frustrating -whether it's their teeth/breath, extensive body hair, or some other grooming issue. It brings to mind a date I once had involving a woman with rampant leg hair... at the time I was tempted to offer her my shaver.
First, I'd like to draw attention to something you mentioned. On the first date you ignored it and were able to enjoy her company, despite the smell. However, once you determined the cause, you noticed the details (her teeth, plaque, the particulars of the smell) and provided quite a rich description of how repulsive it became to you. The contrast is important to note, because humans often have a tendency to focus on a particular detail, especially in dating, and allow it to overshadow other aspects of their date's character (for example, you noted that she is very well put together). Whether or not that was the driving force the decision not to continue I certainly don't know, it's just some food for thought.
As far as whether you should have said something, I'd like to acknowledge that pointing out a flaw in someone's self-care/health is a very touchy issue, and takes a lot of courage. Even when approached constructively, it's not an easy thing to do and is not always taken well. That's the case even with close friends/family, and so much more with someone we have practically no relationship with!
However, if this was the singular deal-breaking issue that was unbearable, I would at least have put it on the table, out in the open. Until she is aware of it, there is a small chance it will change; there may have been a simple remedy available if only the concern/frustration were communicated, uncomfortable as it may be to put forth. If you were set up via the grapevine, a friend, or a Shadchan, then you also have the option of broaching the concern indirectly through the third party. This is usually more comfortable for daters, often purported as a plus in Shidduch dating.
Personally, I am a big fan of constructive feedback -if there is anything I could do to improve myself I like to hear about it. For that reason, I support the idea of giving feedback, and if you could still provide constructive feedback through a friend I would encourage you to do so with great sensitivity. Telling someone they have plaque and bad breath can be more hurtful than helpful. If you can also find a way for her to receive feedback anonymously so much the better, since it is often harder to hear from a date (especially if the decision to part ways was initiated by you).
There are more subtle approaches that can be taken too. For example, bringing a pack of mouthwash tabs, mints, breath fresheners, etc. and offering her one when you pull them out for yourself. If you want to really be suave, when you pull them out you can admit that you're sometimes self-conscious about your own breath (Who isn't? I know I am!) and it may put her more at ease (or at least bring some awareness). This may be a short-term fix, but if it frees your mind to enjoy the date, gesundheit!
Unfortunately, I don't think whipping out my shaver in the middle of a date would have been helpful in my case.
I am a long time reader of your blog. I recently had a dating experience/question that I thought I would pose to you/your readers. I recently went out with a girl and had a lovely first date. While sitting with her though, I noticed a rather odd smell. Thinking it was something to do with the venue we were in, I ignored it. On the second date though, the smell was back. Upon paying a bit of attention, I realized it was her breath. It was a foul earthy like smell. It brought to mind the tale in Jewish folklore of the Talmudic sage who was so poor that he ate dirt, thereby causing his breath to smell.
Once I noticed her breath, I also noticed her teeth. They were covered in plaque and appeared as if they hadn't been brushed in ages. It was quite unappealing. The smell of her breath and appearance of her teeth drove me crazy. We went on a few more dates, but I just could not get past those two "issues". Speaking to her face on would nearly induce gagging. After a few dates we realized we were not compatible and ended things. The experience, however, left me with a question: should I have said something?
This girl was one of the most put together people Ive ever met. She dressed nicely, her life was in order, it made no sense that she would ignore something as important as oral hygiene! I did not think it was my place to say something as it could be highly offensive. However, something like that could serve as a turn-off for any guy she dates and is also simply gross. It undoubtedly bothers / is noticed by her friends and colleagues who simply don't say anything. Aside from that, it could be an indication of a gum disease or some other oral issue.
As we are no longer dating, my relationship with her is nonexistent. There would e no way for me to say anything. What I wonder is if I should mention it to a friend of hers who can then say something to her?
Any advice would be welcome,
Yodel Deedle
Yodel,
While it may not seem common, the experience of dating someone who may not cover all the bases when it comes to hygiene can be frustrating -whether it's their teeth/breath, extensive body hair, or some other grooming issue. It brings to mind a date I once had involving a woman with rampant leg hair... at the time I was tempted to offer her my shaver.
First, I'd like to draw attention to something you mentioned. On the first date you ignored it and were able to enjoy her company, despite the smell. However, once you determined the cause, you noticed the details (her teeth, plaque, the particulars of the smell) and provided quite a rich description of how repulsive it became to you. The contrast is important to note, because humans often have a tendency to focus on a particular detail, especially in dating, and allow it to overshadow other aspects of their date's character (for example, you noted that she is very well put together). Whether or not that was the driving force the decision not to continue I certainly don't know, it's just some food for thought.
As far as whether you should have said something, I'd like to acknowledge that pointing out a flaw in someone's self-care/health is a very touchy issue, and takes a lot of courage. Even when approached constructively, it's not an easy thing to do and is not always taken well. That's the case even with close friends/family, and so much more with someone we have practically no relationship with!
However, if this was the singular deal-breaking issue that was unbearable, I would at least have put it on the table, out in the open. Until she is aware of it, there is a small chance it will change; there may have been a simple remedy available if only the concern/frustration were communicated, uncomfortable as it may be to put forth. If you were set up via the grapevine, a friend, or a Shadchan, then you also have the option of broaching the concern indirectly through the third party. This is usually more comfortable for daters, often purported as a plus in Shidduch dating.
Personally, I am a big fan of constructive feedback -if there is anything I could do to improve myself I like to hear about it. For that reason, I support the idea of giving feedback, and if you could still provide constructive feedback through a friend I would encourage you to do so with great sensitivity. Telling someone they have plaque and bad breath can be more hurtful than helpful. If you can also find a way for her to receive feedback anonymously so much the better, since it is often harder to hear from a date (especially if the decision to part ways was initiated by you).
There are more subtle approaches that can be taken too. For example, bringing a pack of mouthwash tabs, mints, breath fresheners, etc. and offering her one when you pull them out for yourself. If you want to really be suave, when you pull them out you can admit that you're sometimes self-conscious about your own breath (Who isn't? I know I am!) and it may put her more at ease (or at least bring some awareness). This may be a short-term fix, but if it frees your mind to enjoy the date, gesundheit!
Unfortunately, I don't think whipping out my shaver in the middle of a date would have been helpful in my case.
Dec 27, 2012
The Magic Number 2
I've noticed an interesting pattern in my own dating behavior, and I thought I'd share and get some perspective from the peanut gallery too...
I've written before about the importance of responsiveness (or receptivity) when it comes to interacting with a woman, and in the dating world generally. In the absence of an adequate level of responsiveness, I'll usually give it two tries, but then my motivation to continue plummets. This can be with respect to phone calls, texts, or other forms of contact as well as attempts to schedule another date. I'm tempted to generalize to all forms of initiation in the dating world (and possibly within my relationships as well). But let me not get ahead of myself yet.
For example, there was a young woman I went on a first date with. It was a nice date and I felt that we began getting to know each other, so I called her up and asked her out again. She responded, "one of my friends is in town, so I'm busy that day."
"Okay," I thought to myself "that happens. I like to spend time with my out-of-town friends too." So I suggested another potential time and venue. "That's not a good time for me either, I have a work function that night," she replied. At that point, I was simultaneously frustrated ("Well then, just tell me what works for you!") and in doubt ("Okay, I get the message. We're done here.").
It was seriously disheartening. So I said "Alright, let me know if your evenings open up" and I was done. Needless to say, I didn't contact her again.
Was that a mistake? God only knows. But I can say that my motivation plummeted as she told me she was unavailable, yet made no attempt to suggest a viable time. Twice.
In another situation, a mutual friend had followed through with a suggestion, giving me the "a-okay" to contact the lovely lady whose qualities had been so eloquently lauded. I texted her to see when she would like to talk (with the intent of setting a date, of course). A couple -there's that number two again -of quiet days later, I called her up. After ringing all the way to voice mail, I left a message. A day or two later and I'd mentally washed my hands of her. Did she ever contact me back? Yeah. Two weeks later (and no, she wasn't in a different country)... By which point I was long gone.
I've also been on dates that I felt it were dragging on. I don't need a woman to hang on my every word, but it's important to have more than a one-way conversation that feels like a therapy or interrogation session. I can ask a hundred questions, but after just two carefully crafted open-ended inquiries that are reciprocated with monosyllabic answers, I'm practically resigning. While I'm fairly confident I might be able to continue the line of inquiry -and even though I often will, for the sake of getting through the date -I'm usually giving up on the inside.
On occasion I'll be more persistent. If there's something really pulling me, a strong point of connection, an emotional hook-point... I'll be motivated for longer. When I've had strong feelings, I've been known to pursue with more zeal. However, that is fairly uncommon in the earliest stages of dating.
Could I be too sensitive? Sure, that's a definite possibility.
Am I missing out on opportunities? I'll submit to that potentiality.
Should I change my modus operandum? Ay, that's the question... I'm not so sure.
I can imagine I'm not the only guy who reacts that way. Part of me wants women to understand that just replying without giving more -be it a question or a suggested date option -will probably be taken as a sign disinterest (at least by me). Another part of me wonders if I'm just letting go too soon. Then again, in the wonderfully diverse world of dating my style is -like ice cream -just one flavor of many. I'll have to keep tabs and see if it's actually working for me or not.
Feel free to add your two cents.
I've written before about the importance of responsiveness (or receptivity) when it comes to interacting with a woman, and in the dating world generally. In the absence of an adequate level of responsiveness, I'll usually give it two tries, but then my motivation to continue plummets. This can be with respect to phone calls, texts, or other forms of contact as well as attempts to schedule another date. I'm tempted to generalize to all forms of initiation in the dating world (and possibly within my relationships as well). But let me not get ahead of myself yet.
For example, there was a young woman I went on a first date with. It was a nice date and I felt that we began getting to know each other, so I called her up and asked her out again. She responded, "one of my friends is in town, so I'm busy that day."
"Okay," I thought to myself "that happens. I like to spend time with my out-of-town friends too." So I suggested another potential time and venue. "That's not a good time for me either, I have a work function that night," she replied. At that point, I was simultaneously frustrated ("Well then, just tell me what works for you!") and in doubt ("Okay, I get the message. We're done here.").
It was seriously disheartening. So I said "Alright, let me know if your evenings open up" and I was done. Needless to say, I didn't contact her again.
Was that a mistake? God only knows. But I can say that my motivation plummeted as she told me she was unavailable, yet made no attempt to suggest a viable time. Twice.
In another situation, a mutual friend had followed through with a suggestion, giving me the "a-okay" to contact the lovely lady whose qualities had been so eloquently lauded. I texted her to see when she would like to talk (with the intent of setting a date, of course). A couple -there's that number two again -of quiet days later, I called her up. After ringing all the way to voice mail, I left a message. A day or two later and I'd mentally washed my hands of her. Did she ever contact me back? Yeah. Two weeks later (and no, she wasn't in a different country)... By which point I was long gone.
I've also been on dates that I felt it were dragging on. I don't need a woman to hang on my every word, but it's important to have more than a one-way conversation that feels like a therapy or interrogation session. I can ask a hundred questions, but after just two carefully crafted open-ended inquiries that are reciprocated with monosyllabic answers, I'm practically resigning. While I'm fairly confident I might be able to continue the line of inquiry -and even though I often will, for the sake of getting through the date -I'm usually giving up on the inside.
On occasion I'll be more persistent. If there's something really pulling me, a strong point of connection, an emotional hook-point... I'll be motivated for longer. When I've had strong feelings, I've been known to pursue with more zeal. However, that is fairly uncommon in the earliest stages of dating.
Could I be too sensitive? Sure, that's a definite possibility.
Am I missing out on opportunities? I'll submit to that potentiality.
Should I change my modus operandum? Ay, that's the question... I'm not so sure.
I can imagine I'm not the only guy who reacts that way. Part of me wants women to understand that just replying without giving more -be it a question or a suggested date option -will probably be taken as a sign disinterest (at least by me). Another part of me wonders if I'm just letting go too soon. Then again, in the wonderfully diverse world of dating my style is -like ice cream -just one flavor of many. I'll have to keep tabs and see if it's actually working for me or not.
Feel free to add your two cents.
Dec 7, 2012
Dating Towards a Shared Vision
The Gottmans are a power couple in the field of relationships. Dr. John Gottman is a relationship researcher and his wife, Dr. Julie Schwartz, is a clinician. I attended a seminar about their perspective on couples in which Dr. J. Gottman talked about his research on successful couples.
One of the most striking pieces of his work that struck me is the concept of a shared vision. Practically every successful couple has a shared vision, a set of goals and values that the partners lean on one another to achieve together. During the seminar, he posited that the shared vision is created together.
Which got me thinking about how we date, or at least what I'd thought about how we date. The impression I had when I entered the dating world is that each person has their criteria, their list, their image of what marriage, life, children should look like. We are each trying to find the other person to fit that bill.
I started wondering if maybe instead of looking for that image in another person we should be looking for the person with whom we can create a new image.
Perhaps it wasn't so relevant when we consider the dating history of frum Jews. Living and growing up in small communities may have created a community image, a shared image that children grew up with. Variations may have been smaller. Perhaps in some ways we still have those small communities and still look within them for that shared image. It may have worked then, perhaps it still works today for some.
On the one hand, it seems easy to choose someone based on their fit with our image, and then we stay with them because we like their character and find them attractive. However, it can be quite difficult to find someone who fits that image, and to expect or look for character and attraction in addition can sometimes seem like a tall order.
On the other hand, choosing someone based on character and attraction may seem difficult too, and with the added work of creating a shared image, of having to work and not so easily have the life, marriage, family that we expect or dream of in this moment can also feel like a tough expectation to swallow.
Which way resonates with you?
One of the most striking pieces of his work that struck me is the concept of a shared vision. Practically every successful couple has a shared vision, a set of goals and values that the partners lean on one another to achieve together. During the seminar, he posited that the shared vision is created together.
Which got me thinking about how we date, or at least what I'd thought about how we date. The impression I had when I entered the dating world is that each person has their criteria, their list, their image of what marriage, life, children should look like. We are each trying to find the other person to fit that bill.
I started wondering if maybe instead of looking for that image in another person we should be looking for the person with whom we can create a new image.
Perhaps it wasn't so relevant when we consider the dating history of frum Jews. Living and growing up in small communities may have created a community image, a shared image that children grew up with. Variations may have been smaller. Perhaps in some ways we still have those small communities and still look within them for that shared image. It may have worked then, perhaps it still works today for some.
On the one hand, it seems easy to choose someone based on their fit with our image, and then we stay with them because we like their character and find them attractive. However, it can be quite difficult to find someone who fits that image, and to expect or look for character and attraction in addition can sometimes seem like a tall order.
On the other hand, choosing someone based on character and attraction may seem difficult too, and with the added work of creating a shared image, of having to work and not so easily have the life, marriage, family that we expect or dream of in this moment can also feel like a tough expectation to swallow.
Which way resonates with you?
Sep 10, 2012
Oh, Long Distance.
Sometimes we can be blissfully oblivious of what we're saying until after we've heard the words out of our own mouth, and then... Wham! We process what just came out. Other times, it can take a while before our words come back to haunt us.
I've had to eat my own words a few times. It can be so embarrassing, and yet so enlightening at the same time. I usually laugh -it's amazing how we can corner ourselves with just a few words. I relish the experience, the double entendre, the unintended (perhaps subconscious) meanings we convey, how simple it is to misunderstand or misrepresent what we mean.
And so, with reference to my abhorring long distance here and an entire post devoted to it here, it's time to eat my words, so to speak. I'm doing the long distance thing now. I think I dislike long distance more than ever, but sometimes the person is worth it. I certainly feel that way now.
Sometimes, I feel that life experience is telling me that ideals and reality don't always mix -it's like oil and water. Ideals can be lofty and light, rising above the realities of life. Ideally, I'd avoid long distance. In reality, it's something I'll put up with -for someone I feel is worth overcoming the obstacles.
But back to the ol' peanut-butter-and-jelly-sandwich metaphor for long distance versus proximal dating:
It's like the difference between spreading peanut-butter and jelly evenly on two slices of bread versus putting a glob on each and smushing them together haphazardly. The two sandwiches may have the same ingredients, but there's a world of difference in their taste, perhaps in each bite.With long distance, each bite is more intense. Spending time together can feel pressured -there's just so much I want to cram into every moment, unsaid feelings and thoughts, curiosity and so much I'd like to learn and see, wanting more time, always thinking about when the next opportunity might be, and fretting about parting ways until some nebulous, hopeful future time to get together again. And then the process repeats itself, feeling pressured and trying to cram too much into too little time.
Afterwards, looking back, I sometimes wish it could just be more relaxed and less intense. Being able to spend time together doing things and interacting rather than trying to cram two or three weeks' anticipation into a sliver of time. Talk about overwhelming!
It's all in my own mind, of course. I'm just going to have to put it to work figuring out how to chill and slow down, take the pressure for intensity down a few notches. Which is hard to do when I don't really want it to slow down, especially given that the distance is already built into the package. On the other hand, I'm learning that trying to compensate by cramming more intensity into less time (or fewer meetings) isn't a particularly effective solution.
[As a side note, I find myself trying harder to develop more of a connection faster (or a stronger connection), perhaps to compensate for the physical distance I'm forced to acknowledge and deal with. It's a push to handle my own dislike and frustration with the physical distance by trying to balance it with emotional closeness. I'm curious if anyone else has had that experience too.]
Balance, as they say. It's just a matter of time. Well, space and time. *Sigh* Oh, long distance.
Aug 27, 2012
Quote of the Day #10
Every so often, I work out a little phrase or thought. Often it seems
like I've heard it before, but I'll admit I don't read libraries of
literature and I'm not well versed in the world's quotes. In any case,
here's one from the other day:
"I find it a profound irony that we spend all of our time dating obsessing about similarity and our relationships/marriages learning to appreciate and overcome our differences. "
As always, thoughts or feedback are appreciated.
"I find it a profound irony that we spend all of our time dating obsessing about similarity and our relationships/marriages learning to appreciate and overcome our differences. "
As always, thoughts or feedback are appreciated.
Aug 20, 2012
The Dangler
I'm a pretty straight-laced guy, so when I go out on a date with a woman and let her know at the end that I had a great time and would like to go out again, I mean it. I also contact her within the next couple of days, at least to chat a bit, build more of a connection, flirt, etc. Either way, I definitely have the next date in mind even if I don't always get "down to business" straight away.
I have come to understand that the process of dating takes time, to wait for a suggestion, consider it carefully, to answer and wait back for an affirmative response, to make contact and compare schedules, to set a date and go out, to talk a day or two later. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Still, sometimes it's too drawn out, like this story about the dangler, who strung me a long for a couple weeks after a first date.
As I've mentioned, graduate school keeps me somewhat busy on occasion, reducing my available dating time. Summers are often the best and most open time I have, which also makes them the most precious for dating. While I could probably cram in 4-6 dates a week with anywhere between 2-6 women, being straight-laced means (to me) that I'll take it one at a time. I'd rather not compare or cram.
So, onto the dangler. Our initial contact and phone conversation was great, and we set a time to go out. I thoroughly enjoyed exchanging stories on the date, I happen to think it's a great way to start getting to know each other, and there's always extra points when the stories are funny, shocking or otherwise striking. It's also a great way to slip in some intrigue, a la "remind me to tell you the story about my first experience with peas..."
Unfortunately it was all lateral from there. Lateral as in "sideways," as in "no upwards or downwards movement."
Communication almost immediately became particularly patchy. Texts would sometimes garner little response and other times multiple responses, calls went unanswered but returned via text (and then responded to patchily, as above), she'd selectively answer questions and comments I made. In the two weeks that followed our first date I mentioned talking about setting up another date at least twice, if not thrice, and I would have been perfectly fine if she were not interested.
At first I wondered if it was a game of hot-and-cold. Personally, I don't have much interest in the game, but I was wondering about it. After about a week, I found my interest dropping, particularly since I experienced a significant drop in receptiveness. You'd think it could indicate her lack of interest, but I didn't sense that. Then I wondered if she was having a busy week, perhaps not unlike some of my own, but I thought she should have said something about that.
And then she did.
"Okay, that happens" I thought to myself. "I have had busy weeks, I know what it's like. Maybe this week will be better." Meanwhile, a precious week of summer dating time had gone by with nary a date in sight.
And then she did it again.
After twelve days of this, I had pretty much lost interest. I didn't even really want to go out on a second date anymore. Being straight-laced does have its drawbacks, and feeling obligated to stay true to my word and go out again is one of them.
I figured if I didn't have a stellar time and a third date didn't materialize quickly thereafter, I'd wash my hands of the whole ordeal.
Finally, we set a time to talk on the phone. At this point I was pretty much done with chasing her, so we figured out a time and I let her know she can call me, thinking that I wasn't going to keep initiating forever with someone so busy. Let her make time and contact me when she is comfortable.
The call never came, but I did get a text three days later saying she's a bit too busy to date right now. "No kidding," I thought to myself, "I figured that one out on my own, thanks." Then she offered to talk on the phone about it. Having had enough of the dangling, this cat just walked away.
I learned two lessons. First, never tell a woman you'd like to go out again, until you are planning the next date already. Second, if someone you go out with is too busy to schedule another date, just tell them that they seem busy and cut 'em loose. Third, receptivity is #1. Okay, that's three, but the last one is an old lesson anyways.
I have come to understand that the process of dating takes time, to wait for a suggestion, consider it carefully, to answer and wait back for an affirmative response, to make contact and compare schedules, to set a date and go out, to talk a day or two later. Wash, rinse, repeat.
Still, sometimes it's too drawn out, like this story about the dangler, who strung me a long for a couple weeks after a first date.
As I've mentioned, graduate school keeps me somewhat busy on occasion, reducing my available dating time. Summers are often the best and most open time I have, which also makes them the most precious for dating. While I could probably cram in 4-6 dates a week with anywhere between 2-6 women, being straight-laced means (to me) that I'll take it one at a time. I'd rather not compare or cram.
So, onto the dangler. Our initial contact and phone conversation was great, and we set a time to go out. I thoroughly enjoyed exchanging stories on the date, I happen to think it's a great way to start getting to know each other, and there's always extra points when the stories are funny, shocking or otherwise striking. It's also a great way to slip in some intrigue, a la "remind me to tell you the story about my first experience with peas..."
Unfortunately it was all lateral from there. Lateral as in "sideways," as in "no upwards or downwards movement."
Communication almost immediately became particularly patchy. Texts would sometimes garner little response and other times multiple responses, calls went unanswered but returned via text (and then responded to patchily, as above), she'd selectively answer questions and comments I made. In the two weeks that followed our first date I mentioned talking about setting up another date at least twice, if not thrice, and I would have been perfectly fine if she were not interested.
At first I wondered if it was a game of hot-and-cold. Personally, I don't have much interest in the game, but I was wondering about it. After about a week, I found my interest dropping, particularly since I experienced a significant drop in receptiveness. You'd think it could indicate her lack of interest, but I didn't sense that. Then I wondered if she was having a busy week, perhaps not unlike some of my own, but I thought she should have said something about that.
And then she did.
"Okay, that happens" I thought to myself. "I have had busy weeks, I know what it's like. Maybe this week will be better." Meanwhile, a precious week of summer dating time had gone by with nary a date in sight.
And then she did it again.
After twelve days of this, I had pretty much lost interest. I didn't even really want to go out on a second date anymore. Being straight-laced does have its drawbacks, and feeling obligated to stay true to my word and go out again is one of them.
I figured if I didn't have a stellar time and a third date didn't materialize quickly thereafter, I'd wash my hands of the whole ordeal.
Finally, we set a time to talk on the phone. At this point I was pretty much done with chasing her, so we figured out a time and I let her know she can call me, thinking that I wasn't going to keep initiating forever with someone so busy. Let her make time and contact me when she is comfortable.
The call never came, but I did get a text three days later saying she's a bit too busy to date right now. "No kidding," I thought to myself, "I figured that one out on my own, thanks." Then she offered to talk on the phone about it. Having had enough of the dangling, this cat just walked away.
I learned two lessons. First, never tell a woman you'd like to go out again, until you are planning the next date already. Second, if someone you go out with is too busy to schedule another date, just tell them that they seem busy and cut 'em loose. Third, receptivity is #1. Okay, that's three, but the last one is an old lesson anyways.
Aug 10, 2012
#1 on my List is...
I can safely say that the largest factor for me when it comes to dating (and women in general) is receptivity.
But before I explain and qualify myself, permit me to paint a picture that clearly shows the difference between an encounter with someone who is receptive and someone who isn't. Let's say I'm in a room full of singles ready to mingle. I am taking my time walking around slowly, allowing myself to scan and note anyone I find potentially appealing or attractive. That's how the first impression works, and I've come to trust in what I find interesting.
And let's say I see two women that I am interested in talking to, and perhaps for the sake of this illustration I will posit that I find one significantly more attractive than the other at the moment. So, as I mingle and make my way around the room (assuming I wouldn't just make a beeline for whomever I found interesting), I look over a few times. Say the more attractive one is oblivious to my existence, and the other attractive woman looks back and smiles. Can you guess which I would approach?
I would not give it a second thought. If there were a balance and the initial attraction had it tipped to one side, at this point it would be almost entirely weighed on the other side.
What I'm hoping for is an indication of potential interest because -let's face it -I know how I feel and what I am thinking, but not what she's thinking or feeling. I'm just not very likely to spend or waste my time trying to charm or convince a woman to be interested in me. Furthermore, with every response, smile, laugh and look I will find myself more attracted and interested in this woman and less interested in the other one.
In one sense, it's not super complicated: we are more attracted to people who we think and feel are attracted to us. That's why hearing a woman likes me or has an interest in me will more likely pique my interest in her.
The same has been my experience with online and shidduch dating. Whether it's because of emotional (interest/attraction) or logistical (school/work/being busy) factors, I'm MUCH more into a woman who is available and responsive to me (and of course we have lives, I don't expect 24/6 responsiveness).
And there you have a definition for receptivity: being available and responsive. Body language and nonverbals are just as important as listening and being open to hearing and responding to whatever stories, thoughts or jokes I'm sharing (and of course that goes two ways as well). It's not just about responding, but how she responds too.
Receptivity is honestly, seriously, actually, very attractive. Downright hott. It easily tips the scales for me.
I naturally gravitate towards people who are more responsive to me, and I assume that's the case for most people. On the flip side, when I sense less receptivity, I'm often finding myself less interested, less invested and less attracted.
Some people think that "playing the game" -when they wait, hold back and are not very receptive -works better. Maybe in America we were raised and told to play our cards close to our chest, to give up as little as possible it's understandable that people would do so. I would much rather smile and see smiles, tease and be teased, to quip and use wordplay, push away and pull in with playful communication.
But before I explain and qualify myself, permit me to paint a picture that clearly shows the difference between an encounter with someone who is receptive and someone who isn't. Let's say I'm in a room full of singles ready to mingle. I am taking my time walking around slowly, allowing myself to scan and note anyone I find potentially appealing or attractive. That's how the first impression works, and I've come to trust in what I find interesting.
And let's say I see two women that I am interested in talking to, and perhaps for the sake of this illustration I will posit that I find one significantly more attractive than the other at the moment. So, as I mingle and make my way around the room (assuming I wouldn't just make a beeline for whomever I found interesting), I look over a few times. Say the more attractive one is oblivious to my existence, and the other attractive woman looks back and smiles. Can you guess which I would approach?
I would not give it a second thought. If there were a balance and the initial attraction had it tipped to one side, at this point it would be almost entirely weighed on the other side.
What I'm hoping for is an indication of potential interest because -let's face it -I know how I feel and what I am thinking, but not what she's thinking or feeling. I'm just not very likely to spend or waste my time trying to charm or convince a woman to be interested in me. Furthermore, with every response, smile, laugh and look I will find myself more attracted and interested in this woman and less interested in the other one.
In one sense, it's not super complicated: we are more attracted to people who we think and feel are attracted to us. That's why hearing a woman likes me or has an interest in me will more likely pique my interest in her.
The same has been my experience with online and shidduch dating. Whether it's because of emotional (interest/attraction) or logistical (school/work/being busy) factors, I'm MUCH more into a woman who is available and responsive to me (and of course we have lives, I don't expect 24/6 responsiveness).
And there you have a definition for receptivity: being available and responsive. Body language and nonverbals are just as important as listening and being open to hearing and responding to whatever stories, thoughts or jokes I'm sharing (and of course that goes two ways as well). It's not just about responding, but how she responds too.
Receptivity is honestly, seriously, actually, very attractive. Downright hott. It easily tips the scales for me.
I naturally gravitate towards people who are more responsive to me, and I assume that's the case for most people. On the flip side, when I sense less receptivity, I'm often finding myself less interested, less invested and less attracted.
Some people think that "playing the game" -when they wait, hold back and are not very receptive -works better. Maybe in America we were raised and told to play our cards close to our chest, to give up as little as possible it's understandable that people would do so. I would much rather smile and see smiles, tease and be teased, to quip and use wordplay, push away and pull in with playful communication.
Aug 3, 2012
My Love-Hate Relationship with Dating
I recently go back on the horse and started dating again. It was not easy for me. In fact, I practically had to drag my resistant heart and mind through the process just to get myself out on a date. I found myself very much lacking in motivation, and found my body leading my heart. It was an odd, dream-like, zombie-esque experience.
I recently heard a great analogy (for guys, at least): dating is like shaving. See, when you start it's super exciting, because of what it means (as sign of manhood/adulthood) and because of the newness. After a couple months or so (no, I don't mean dating the same person for two months, I mean dating bunches of people), it starts to become a chore. Pretty soon after it's a downright pain.
At least the date was fun. Taking time away helped in that being on the date felt refreshing rather than jaded. Kind of like how guys often have fun shaving after the three weeks or the Omer, making all kinds of designs, patterns and crazy beards before going baby-faced again.
During my long "break," in random moments when I had some time to breathe, I reflected on my dating experiences, what I enjoy and appreciate and what I really don't like.
I found that I enjoy having time and space for myself, that I like to be more laid back and relaxed about dating, and that formality, pressure and stress just get in the way of being myself and actually experiencing the other person. I found that when I feel the dating is pressured or formal I become a lot more self-conscious and focus on myself instead of getting to know the woman. I become preoccupied with protocol and all of these things rather than just spending time swapping stories, building rapport and flirting.
As much as I've learned about myself through dating, the things I like and don't like about it, I wonder about my on-again-off-again relationship with it. I spent some time dating intensely when I started, and then found I had to back off quite a bit. Perhaps finding a balance, something more laid back with less pressure to keep going out with women back-to-back may be more ideal for me.
Either way, though I love to get out there and meet people, I'm finding my heart isn't always into it. I have to balance listening to my heart with persevering through the chore and pain ofshaving. Oops, dating.
I recently heard a great analogy (for guys, at least): dating is like shaving. See, when you start it's super exciting, because of what it means (as sign of manhood/adulthood) and because of the newness. After a couple months or so (no, I don't mean dating the same person for two months, I mean dating bunches of people), it starts to become a chore. Pretty soon after it's a downright pain.
At least the date was fun. Taking time away helped in that being on the date felt refreshing rather than jaded. Kind of like how guys often have fun shaving after the three weeks or the Omer, making all kinds of designs, patterns and crazy beards before going baby-faced again.
During my long "break," in random moments when I had some time to breathe, I reflected on my dating experiences, what I enjoy and appreciate and what I really don't like.
I found that I enjoy having time and space for myself, that I like to be more laid back and relaxed about dating, and that formality, pressure and stress just get in the way of being myself and actually experiencing the other person. I found that when I feel the dating is pressured or formal I become a lot more self-conscious and focus on myself instead of getting to know the woman. I become preoccupied with protocol and all of these things rather than just spending time swapping stories, building rapport and flirting.
As much as I've learned about myself through dating, the things I like and don't like about it, I wonder about my on-again-off-again relationship with it. I spent some time dating intensely when I started, and then found I had to back off quite a bit. Perhaps finding a balance, something more laid back with less pressure to keep going out with women back-to-back may be more ideal for me.
Either way, though I love to get out there and meet people, I'm finding my heart isn't always into it. I have to balance listening to my heart with persevering through the chore and pain of
Apr 15, 2012
Choices #2: Corrosive Chain Choices
I can't count how many times I have heard that men have an overabundance and women a paucity of choices in shidduchim. And, of course, the implication is that men are better off. While I'm very willing to admit that as a man I realize that I have some important privilege, particularly when it comes to my age and expectations for marriage, I don't think the choices -both the many for men or the few for women -are particularly good for us as daters.
No matter how you date, there are often a series of choices we have to make -whether to pursue the other person or not, whether to accept and move forward or not, what to wear and how to dress, where to go, how to manage the many forks in the road of dating, be that between dates or as dating turns into a relationship and/or progresses towards marriage.
Following my previous post, I found another interesting research article on choice-making, which I think is applicable, and actually follows a similar logic (see here and here for the research details). Basically, the research had participants making a chain of decisions in navigating a maze, where each choice either led to winning or losing money. By analyzing the choices made, the researchers found that any decision that having the immediate consequence of losing a large sum of money was avoided, even if/when it would lead to winning more money overall. Furthermore, the increased usage of this "pruning" decision making was correlated with increased symptoms of depression.
So lets take a process such as... hmmm let's say... dating in the shidduch world, where there are a series of decisions -a maze of sorts -to navigate. Each decision represents an investment, and potential loss of time, effort (and for men money) or potential benefits (connection, excitement, potential marriage). I can definitely see people using this same "pruning" process to avoid options/choices/decisions that they would expect to lead to loss (say, not being excited after the first date may be very discouraging in terms of choosing to go out again).
One thing that really bears out in the research is that people make poor choices based on the "pruning" decision-making process; furthermore, this type of avoidance in decision-making is actually related to greater symptoms of depression!
That is, of course, in addition to the pressures and stress and frustrations in dating. No wonder so many singles -especially those who have been navigating the shidduch dating scene for a while -are getting increasingly depressed!
Maybe it's time we find a different way of thinking about how we make choices in dating...
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